And you find terracotta heads that could or could not be representative of Demeter and Persephone, the two goddesses to whom the mysteries of Eleusis were dedicated. So to find dog sacrifice inside this Greek sanctuary alludes to this proto-witch, Hecate, the mother of Circe, who is mentioned in the same hymn to Demeter from the 8th, 7th century BC, as kind of the third of the goddesses to whom these mysteries were dedicated. One, on mainland Greece from the Mycenaean period, 16th century BC, and the other about 800 years later in modern day Turkey, another ritual potion that seemed to have suggested some kind of concoction of beer, wine, and mead that was used to usher the king into the afterlife. And I think oversight also comes in handy within organized religion. There's John Marco Allegro claiming that there was no Jesus, and this was just one big amanita muscaria cult. BRIAN MURARESKU: We can dip from both pies, Dr. Stang. So here's a question for you. And I think that that's the real question here. Brought to you by Several theories address the issue of the origin of the Romanians.The Romanian language descends from the Vulgar Latin dialects spoken in the Roman provinces north of the "Jireek Line" (a proposed notional line separating the predominantly Latin-speaking territories from the Greek-speaking lands in Southeastern Europe) in Late Antiquity.The theory of Daco-Roman continuity argues that the . I am so fortunate to have been selected to present my thesis, "Mythology and Psychedelics: Taking the Pagan Continuity Hypothesis a Step Further" at. Psychedelics are a lens to investigate this stuff. He comes to this research with a full suite of scholarly skills, including a deep knowledge of Greek and Latin as well as facility in a number of European languages, which became crucial for uncovering some rather obscure research in Catalan, and also for sweet-talking the gatekeepers of archives and archaeological sites. We see lots of descriptions of this in the mystical literature with which you're very familiar. It's not just Cana. So I don't write this to antagonize them or the church, the people who, again, ushered me into this discipline and into these questions. But clearly, when you're thinking about ancient Egypt or elsewhere, there's definitely a funerary tradition. Eusebius, third into the fourth century, is also talking about them-- it's a great Greek word, [SPEAKING GREEK]. And she talks about kind of being born again, another promise from John's gospel. This an absolute masterclass on why you must know your identity and goals before forming a habit, what the best systems are for habit. But Egypt seems to not really be hugely relevant to the research. And we had a great chat, a very spirited chat about the mysteries and the psychedelic hypothesis. CHARLES STANG: So in some sense, you're feeling almost envy for the experiences on psychedelics, which is to say you've never experienced the indwelling of Christ or the immediate knowledge of your immortality in the sacrament. And I think that's an important distinction to make. So Plato, Pindar, Sophocles, all the way into Cicero, Marcus Aurelius, it's an important thing. And how can you reasonably expect the church to recognize a psychedelic Eucharist? If you look at Dioscorides, for example, his Materia Medica, that's written in the first century AD around the same time that the Gospels themselves are being written. So what have you learned about the Eleusinian mysteries in particular since Ruck took this up, and what has convinced you that Ruck's hypothesis holds water? Administration and supervision endeavors and with strong knowledge in: Online teaching and learning methods, Methods for Teaching Mathematics and Technology Integration for K-12 and College . What does it mean to die before dying? Continuity Hypothesis - Keith E Rice's Integrated SocioPsychology Blog Was Moses high? Studies linking religion and drugs gain traction From about 1500 BC to the fourth century AD, it calls to the best and brightest of not just Athens but also Rome. BRIAN MURARESKU: Right. You might find it in a cemetery in Mexico. Listen to #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More, an episode of The Tim Ferriss Show, easily on Podbay - the best podcast player on the web. And I'll just list them out quickly. Up until that point I really had very little knowledge of psychedelics, personal or literary or otherwise. Now are there any other questions you wish to propose or push or-- I don't know, to push back against any of the criticisms or questions I've leveled? You won't find it in many places other than that. I mean, if Burkert was happy to speculate about psychedelics, I'm not sure why Ruck got the reception that he did in 1978 with their book The Road to Eleusis. In fact, he found beer, wine, and mead all mixed together in a couple of different places. I want to thank you for your candor. Let me just pull up my notes here. There are others claiming that there's drugs everywhere. The Tim Ferriss Show - #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin What Brian labels the religion with no name. BRIAN MURARESKU: I wish I could answer that question. And what it has to do with Eleusis or the Greek presence in general, I mean, again, just to say it briefly, is that this was a farmhouse of sorts that was inland, this sanctuary site. There was an absence of continuity in the direction of the colony as Newport made his frequent voyages to and . And let's start with our earliest evidence from the Stone Age and the Bronze Age. But let me say at the outset that it is remarkably learned, full of great historical and philological detail. And so with a revised ancient history, in place Brian tacks back to the title of our series, Psychedelics and the Future of Religion. They are guaranteed an afterlife. Like in Israel. So again, if there were an early psychedelic sacrament that was being suppressed, I'd expect that the suppressors would talk about it. CHARLES STANG: All right. And the one thing that unites both of those worlds in this research called the pagan continuity hypothesis, the one thing we can bet on is the sacred language of Greek. The Tim Ferriss Show | iHeart The phrasing used in the book and by others is "the pagan continuity hypothesis". You mentioned, too, early churchmen, experts in heresies by the name of Irenaeus of Lyons and Hippolytus of Rome. I've no doubt that Brian has unearthed and collected a remarkable body of evidence, but evidence of what, exactly? And even Burkert, I think, calls it the most famous of the mystery rituals. And what do you believe happens to you when you do that? And there were probably other Eleusises like that to the east. Which is really weird, because that's how the same Dina Bazer, the same atheist in the psilocybin trials, described her insight. Because very briefly, I think Brian and others have made a very strong case that these things-- this was a biotechnology that was available in the ancient world. He's joining us from Uruguay, where he has wisely chosen to spend his pandemic isolation. Not because it was brand new data. What's significant about these features for our piecing together the ancient religion with no name? BRIAN MURARESKU: But you're spot on. So don't feel like you have to go into great depth at this point. And at some point in my narrative, I do include mention of Gobekli Tepe, for example, which is essentially twice the age of Stonehenge. And did the earliest Christians inherit the same secret tradition? And not least because if I were to do it, I'd like to do so in a deeply sacred ritual. Yeah. So the event happens, when all the wines run out, here comes Jesus, who's referred to in the Gospels as an [SPEAKING GREEK] in Greek, a drunkard. And why, if you're right that the church has succeeded in suppressing a psychedelic sacrament and has been peddling instead, what you call a placebo, and that it has exercised a monstrous campaign of persecution against plant medicine and the women who have kept its knowledge alive, why are you still attached to this tradition? And all along, I invite you all to pose questions to Brian in the Q&A function. . And what does this earliest history tell us about the earliest evidence for an ancient psychedelic religion? It's only in John that Jesus is described as being born in the lap of the Father, the [SPEAKING GREEK] in 1:18, very similar to the way that Dionysus sprung miraculously from the thigh of Zeus, and on and on and on-- which I'm not going to bore you and the audience. CHARLES STANG: My name is Charles Stang, and I'm the director of the Center for the Study of World Religions here at Harvard Divinity School. But the point being, if the Dionysian wine was psychedelic-- which I know is a big if-- I think the more important thing to show here in this pagan continuity hypothesis is that it's at least plausible that the earliest Christians would have at the very least read the Gospel of John and interpreted that paleo-Christian Eucharistic wine, in some communities, as a kind of Dionysian wine. #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More Brought to you by GiveWell.org charity research and effective giving and 5-Bullet Friday, my very own email newsletter. And so that's what motivated my search here. "The Jews" are not after Ye. I understand the appeal of that. The pagan continuity hypothesis at the heart of this book made sense to me. They're mixing potions. And I, for one, look forward to a time when I can see him in person for a beer, ergotized beer or not, if he ever leaves Uruguay. And as a lawyer, I know what is probative and what's circumstantial evidence, and I just-- I don't see it there. BRIAN MURARESKU: Now we're cooking with grease, Dr. Stang. Tim Ferriss Show #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin: The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Psychedelics, and More. And Brian, once again, thank you so much. Amazon.com: Customer reviews: The Immortality Key: The Secret History Pagan polemicists reversed the Biblical story of the Israelites' liberation from Egyptian bondage, portraying a negative image of Israelite origins and picturing them as misanthropes and atheists. Brendon Benz presents an alternative hypothesis to recent scholarship which has hypothesized that Israel consisted of geographical, economic . And so even within the New Testament you see little hints and clues that there was no such thing as only ordinary table wine. The continuity theory proposes that older adults maintain the same activities, behaviors, personalities, and relationships of the past. And what you're referring to is-- and how I begin the book is this beautiful Greek phrase, [SPEAKING GREEK]. So whatever was happening there was important. And I-- in my profession, we call this circumstantial, and I get it. Psychedelics Today: PTSF 35 (with Brian Muraresku) Griffithsfund.org An Exploration of Religion: An Interview with Brian Muraresku So when you take a step back, as you well know, there was a Hellenic presence all over the ancient Mediterranean. I'm currently reading The Immortality Key by Brian Muraresku and find this 2nd/3rd/4th century AD time period very interesting, particularly with regards to the adoptions of pagan rituals and practices by early Christianity. I don't know why it's happening now, but we're finally taking a look. And Brian, it would be helpful for me to know whether you are more interested in questions that take up the ancient world or more that deal with this last issue, the sort of contemporary and the future. I'm happy to argue about that. Then what was the Gospel of John, how did it interpret the Eucharist and market it, and so on. It is not psychedelics. 32:57 Ancient languages and Brian's education . The most colorful theory of psychedelics in religion portrays the original Santa Claus as a shaman. And I think it's proof of concept-- just proof of concept-- for investing serious funding, and attention into the actual search for these kinds of potions. And nor did we think that a sanctuary would be one of the first things that we construct. This is all secret. And that that's how I-- and by not speculating more than we can about the mystical supper, if we follow the hypothesis that this is a big if for some early communities of Greek speakers, this is how I'm finding common ground with priests both Catholic and Orthodox and Protestants. What's the importance of your abstention from psychedelics, given what is obvious interest. And her answer was that they'd all been cleaned or treated for conservation purposes. And please just call me Charlie. But what I see are potential and possibilities and things worthy of discussions like this. Before I set forth the outline of this thesis, three topics must be discussed in order to establish a basic understanding of the religious terminology, Constantine's reign, and the contemporary sources. So I went fully down the rabbit hole. The fact that the Vatican sits in Rome today is not an accident, I think, is the shortest way to answer that. So we move now into ancient history, but solidly into the historical record, however uneven that historical record is. I mean, in the absence of the actual data, that's my biggest question. 25:15 Dionysus and the "pagan continuity hypothesis" 30:54 Gnosticism and Early Christianity . Despite its popular appeal as a New York Times Bestseller, TIK fails to make a compelling case for its grand theory of the "pagan continuity hypothesis with a psychedelic twist" due to recurring overreach and historical distortion, failure to consider relevant research on shamanism and Christianity, and presentation of speculation as fact So at the very-- after the first half of the book is over, there's an epilogue, and I say, OK, here's the evidence. Despite its popular appeal as a New York Times Bestseller, TIK fails to make a compelling case for its grand theory of the "pagan continuity hypothesis with a psychedelic twist" due to. CHARLES STANG: OK. And the big question is, what is this thing doing there in the middle of nowhere? Now I understand and I appreciate the pharmaceutical industry's ability to distribute this as medicine for those who are looking for alternatives, alternative treatments for depression and anxiety and PTSD and addiction and end of life distress. So now it's true that these heresy hunters show an interest in this love potion. That's the promise in John's gospel, in John 6:54-55, that I quote in the book. It's something that goes from Homer all the way until the fall of the Roman Empire, over the course of well more than 1,000 years. The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name BRIAN MURARESKU: That's a good question. The Psychedelic Gospels: The Secret History of Hallucinogens in The big question is, did any of these recipes, did any of this wine spiking actually make its way into some paleo-Christian ceremony. According to Muraresku, this work, which "presents the pagan continuity hypothesis with a psychedelic twist," addresses two fundamental questions: "Before the rise of Christianity, did the Ancient Greeks consume a secret psychedelic sacrament during their most famous and well-attended religious rituals? And all we know-- I mean, we can't decipher sequence by sequence what was happening. So in my mind, it was the first real hard scientific data to support this hypothesis, which, as you alluded to at the beginning, only raises more questions. Despite its popular appeal as a New York Times Bestseller, TIK fails to make a compelling case for its grand theory of the "pagan continuity hypothesis with a psychedelic twist" due to recurring overreach and historical distortion, failure to consider relevant research on shamanism and Christianity, and presentation of speculation as fact." She had the strange sense that every moment was an eternity of its own. And I think that we would behoove ourselves to incorporate, resuscitate, maybe, some of those techniques that seem to have been employed by the Greeks at Eleusis or by the Dionysians or some of these earliest Christians. The altar had been sitting in a museum in Israel since the 1960s and just hadn't been tested. And he found some beer and wine-- that was a bit surprising. So if you don't think that you are literally consuming divine blood, what is the point of religion? And maybe therein we do since the intimation of immortality. And so I do see an avenue, like I kind of obliquely mentioned, but I do think there's an avenue within organized religion and for people who dedicate their lives as religious professionals to ministry to perhaps take a look at this in places where it might work. CHARLES STANG: OK. Now let's move into the Greek mystery. It's funny to see that some of the first basilicas outside Rome are popping up here, and in and around Pompeii. And I think we get hung up on the jargon. Mark and Brian cover the Eleusinian Mysteries, the pagan continuity hypothesis, early Christianity, lessons from famed religious scholar Karen Armstrong, overlooked aspects of influential philosopher William James's career, ancient wine and ancient beer, experiencing the divine within us, the importance of "tikkun olam"repairing and . And if it only occurs in John, the big question is why. And much of the evidence that you've collected is kind of the northern half of the Mediterranean world. It draws attention to this material. First, I will provide definitions for the terms "pagan", "Christian", It's really quite simple, Charlie. Not because they just found that altar. If beer was there that long ago, what kind of beer was it? OK-- maybe one of those ancient beers. Well, wonderful. So Dionysus is not the god of alcohol. If your history is even remotely correct, that would have ushered in a very different church, if Valentinus's own student Marcus and the Marcosians were involved in psychedelic rituals, then that was an early road not taken, let's say. There's a good number of questions that are very curious why you are insisting on remaining a psychedelic virgin. So how does Dionysian revelries get into this picture? This time around, we have a very special edition featuring Dr. Mark Plotkin and Brian C . Thank you for that. Did the potion at Eleusis change from generation to generation? I don't think we have found it. CHARLES STANG: We're often in this situation where we're trying to extrapolate from evidence from Egypt, to see is Egypt the norm or is it the exception? Material evidence of a very strange potion, a drug, or a [SPEAKING GREEK]. So the basic point being, as far as we can tell, beer and wine are routinely mixed with things that we don't do today. He was greatly influenced by Sigmund Freud (1940) who viewed an infant's first relationship - usually with the mother - as "the prototype of all later love-relations". BRIAN MURARESKU: I would say I've definitely experienced the power of the Christ and the Holy Spirit. So what evidence can you provide for that claim? For me, that's a question, and it will yield more questions. Which is a very weird thing today. In this hypothesis, both widely accepted and widely criticized,11 'American' was synonymous with 'North American'. But what we do know is that their sacrament was wine and we know a bit more about the wine of antiquity, ancient Greek wine, than we can piece together from these nocturnal celebrations. So the big question is, what kind of drug was this, if it was a drug? We look forward to hosting Chacruna's founder and executive director, Bia Labate, for a lecture on Monday, March 8. She joins me for most events and meetings. That's how we get to Catalonia. The answer seems to be connected to psychedelic drugs. And I look forward to talking about this event with you after the fact eventually over a beer. And I guess my biggest question, not necessarily for you, but the psychedelic community, for what it's worth, or those who are interested in this stuff is how do we make this experience sacred? In the first half, we'll cover topics ranging from the Eleusinian Mysteries, early Christianity, and the pagan continuity hypothesis to the work of philosopher and psychologist William James. Liked by Samuel Zuschlag. I'm skeptical, Dr. Stang. It tested positive for the microscopic remains of beer and also ergot, exactly the hypothesis that had been put forward in 1978 by the disgraced professor across town from you, Carl Ruck, who's now 85 years old, by the way. Mark and Brian cover the Eleusinian Mysteries, the pagan continuity hypothesis, early Christianity, lessons from famed religious scholar Karen Armstrong, overlooked aspects of influential philosopher William James's career, ancient wine and ancient beer, experiencing the divine within us, the importance of " tikkun olam "repairing and improving What the Greeks were actually saying there is that it was barley infected with ergot, which is this natural fungus that infects cereal crops. So I really follow the scholarship of Enriqueta Pons, who is the archaeologist on site there, at this Greek sanctuary that we're talking about in Catalonia, Mas Castellar des Pontos. There's a moment in the book where you are excited about some hard evidence. And I answer it differently every single time. These two accuse one Gnostic teacher named Marcus-- who is himself a student of the famous theologian Valentinus-- they accuse him of dabbling in pharmacological devilry. Read more 37 people found this helpful Helpful Report abuse Tfsiebs So much research! A rebirth into what? BRIAN MURARESKU: Right. Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries Love potions, love charms, they're very common in the ancient. A rebirth into a new conception of the self, the self's relationship to things that are hard to define, like God. This event is entitled, Psychedelics, The Ancient Religion With No Name? Lots of Greek artifacts, lots of Greek signifiers. Its proponents maintain that the affable, plump old fellow associated with Christmas derives from the character of Arctic medical practitioners. There's all kinds of reasons I haven't done it. And when Houston says something like that, it grabs the attention of a young undergrad a bit to your south in Providence, Rhode Island, who was digging into Latin and Greek and wondering what the heck this was all about. That's all just fancy wordplay. "@BrianMuraresku with @DocMarkPlotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More" Please enjoy! And you suspect, therefore, that it might be a placebo, and you want the real thing. Brian's thesis, that of the Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, was explored by Alexander Hislop in his "The Two Babylons", 1853, as a Protestant treatise in the spirit of Martin Luther as Alexander too interjects the Elusinian Mysteries. But in any case, Ruck had his career, well, savaged, in some sense, by the reaction to his daring to take this hypothesis seriously, this question seriously. And I wonder and I question how we can keep that and retain that for today. It was the Jesuits who taught me Latin and Greek. I'm currently reading The Immortality Key by Brian Muraresku and find this 2nd/3rd/4th century AD time period very interesting, particularly with regards to the adoptions of pagan rituals and practices by early Christianity. Part 1 Brian C. Muraresku: The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis and the Hallucinogenic Origins of Religion - Feb 22, 2023 I mean, shouldn't everybody, shouldn't every Christian be wondering what kind of wine was on that table, or the tables of the earliest Christians? So I point to that evidence as illustrative of the possibility that the Christians could, in fact, have gotten their hands on an actual wine. By which I mean that the Gospel of John suggests that at the very least, the evangelist hoped to market Christianity to a pagan audience by suggesting that Jesus was somehow equivalent to Dionysus, and that the Eucharist, his sacrament of wine, was equivalent to Dionysus's wine. Or maybe in palliative care. Psychedelics Weekly - Prince Harry and Psychedelics, Proposed Here's another one. 18.3C: Continuity Theory - Social Sci LibreTexts I mean, this is what I want to do with some of my remaining days on this planet, is take a look at all these different theories. And I wonder whether the former narrative serves the interests of the latter. BRIAN MURARESKU: Good one. So I'm not convinced that-- I think you're absolutely right that what this establishes is that Christians in southern Italy could have-- could have had access to the kinds of things that have been recovered from that drug farm, let's call it. And when you speak in that way, what I hear you saying is there is something going on. Did the ancient Greeks use drugs to find God? BRIAN MURARESKU: Great question. But I do want to push back a little bit on the elevation of this particular real estate in southern Italy. And she happened to find it on psilocybin. Do the drugs, Dr. Stang? So this is interesting. So there's a house preserved outside of Pompeii, preserved, like so much else, under the ash of Mount Vesuvius's eruption in the year 79 of the Common Era. . The Wanderer | Old English Poetry Project | Rutgers University But unfortunately, it doesn't connect it to Christianity. he goes out on a limb and says that black nightshade actually causes [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH], which is not unpleasant visions, i.e. It's arguably not the case in the third century. [2] I'll invite him to think about the future of religion in light of all this. Like the wedding at Cana, which my synopsis of that event is a drunkard getting a bunch of drunk people even more drunk. And I think sites like this have tended to be neglected in scholarship, or published in languages like Catalan, maybe Ukrainian, where it just doesn't filter through the academic community.
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